Re: Nancy Lieder Exposed!

JTRIV wrote:
> 
> Check out the Discovery Channel site for information on the Mammoth. They
> co-sponsored the expedition and have quite a bit of information on the
> Mammoth. Hint: the "Woolly"  Mammoth lived in cold climates Remains of other
> decomposed Mammoths were found nearby.

Not relevant to the point.  Sure the "Woolly" Mammoth had hair, the
climate was probably like the American mid west, hot in the summer, cold
in the winter, unlike either the african or asian elephants, a fur coat
would have helped.  The point is that it ate grass, just like the herds
of bison that roamed all over the American plains.  American bison also
grow a bit of protective hair.  While the pickings are slim during the
winter, they manage.  I'm sure the analogy with the Woolly Mammoth is
similar.  Pig out in summer on grass, migrate south and tough out the
winter on shrubs.

But the bottom line is that where these remains are found are not noted
for being grasslands, in any season.

Sure there were remains of other decomposed Mammoths nearby.  Some may 
have died naturally, some may have become more exposed to the elements
for one reason or another.  I'm not saying that freezing to death is the
only death modality for Mammoths.  I'm not saying every frozen Mammoth
is still somewhere in the Siberian tundra.

> 
> http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/landofmammoth/eyecandy/main.html
> 
> Fascinating stuff, but no evidence of a sudden climactic event that "flash
> froze" the Mammoth. The Mammoths lived approx. 6,000 years after the
> recently discovered frozen Mammoth died.

Yep, never said that this was the only place on the planet that these
animals were found.  Only said that the ones who were in Northern
Siberia "flash froze" giving a relatively generous definition of
"flash".  Still, explain how large numbers of animals could be frozen in
an environment that currently is *clearly* unable to support them and be
in an extremely high state of preservation?

I never stated that this event exterminated all of these animals
everywhere they were found, just the ones in Northern Siberia.  Seen any
grass eaters in Northern Siberia, recently?  Do you think a cow could
survive on its own?  An American Bison? Or might they quickly die from
exposure and freeze solid?

The challenge is simple:

1) estimate the time it takes to freeze an oversize elephant solid such
   that it remains unspoiled for 12,000 years with undigested grass in its
   stomach.
2) explain how Northern Siberia went from a grassland to an arctic
   tundra.
3) invert the time estimate into a climatic event that would cause such
   a transition.


My explanation is simple.  These animals were fat dumb and happy one
day, living large (pun intended) in a high grassland.  Winter sucked,
but oh well, at least they had a fur coat. The next day, they were at a
different latitude and suddenly it got way cold and started to snow.  It
never stopped being cold, and it continued to snow.  They froze.  It
snowed.  The grass died.

> 
> Jim
> 
> The Small Kahuna wrote:
> 
> > Perhaps you spend too much time at your news reader and not enough time
> > reading the newspaper.  Here is an article from the most recent news
> > item about finding a nearly intact mammoth in Siberia that I found with
> > a casual search of "frozen mammoth" at Northern Light.
> 
> <snip>

The Small Kahuna