Log
Board Meeting
May 24, 1998

MS-Chat0001
"5/24/98 11:31:01 AM","Nancy","Please call the meeting to order. We do not yet have a quorum, only 5 members present, but others may join in a minute or two"
"5/24/98 11:31:15 AM","Nancy","Some of our business does not require voting, but rather discussion."
"5/24/98 11:31:48 AM","Nancy","Please note that the Whiteboard has 4 pages on it. Page 1 is the Agenda, page 2 is Jan'"
"5/24/98 11:32:08 AM","Nancy","Jan's proposal as written, page 3 is an alternate proposal of mine, and page 4 is the IRS ruling."
"5/24/98 11:32:08 AM","Gerard","it's some good news i read.. that we are a real Inc now :) "
"5/24/98 11:32:56 AM","Nancy","Yes, good news indeed! We were a Inc. before, as this mean incorporated, but now we are a real nonprofit due to the IRS ruling."
"5/24/98 11:33:29 AM","Gerard","Yes"
"5/24/98 11:33:57 AM","Nancy","The ruling is what was hoped for, expected, which means that they continue to look at us. It is a conditional ruling, meaning that if by the end of 2001 we have not behaved like a nonprofit, we would lose this status and may have to pay taxes retroactively, I'm not sure."
"5/24/98 11:33:59 AM","Jan","Yes - good news and good work!"
"5/24/98 11:34:36 AM","Nancy","Well, perhaps not retroactive taxes, I'll have to ask the CPA when I review all this with him."
"5/24/98 11:34:39 AM","Gerard","I am sure we will do good.. "
"5/24/98 11:35:08 AM","Nancy","I'm going to put the IRS ruling on the web, with the 1023 Forms, which are supposed to be open to the public."
"5/24/98 11:35:48 AM","Clipper","Good idea"
"5/24/98 11:35:57 AM","Nancy","What this ruling allows us too, is to apply to the US Postal Service for nonprofit mailing permit, free mailing!"
"5/24/98 11:36:01 AM","Clipper","Then folks will not have to ask"
"5/24/98 11:36:17 AM","Clipper","Yay!"
"5/24/98 11:36:34 AM","Gerard","good to hear "
"5/24/98 11:37:21 AM","Nancy","This mailing permit application is one of hte things I have on my dependency chart of things to do on the web, activity.gif"
"5/24/98 11:37:23 AM","Gerard","No one in IRC yet"
"5/24/98 11:38:05 AM","Clipper","Then you will handle that on your end Nancy?"
"5/24/98 11:38:16 AM","Nancy","Since we do not have a quorum as yet, lets discuss Jan's proposal."
"5/24/98 11:38:52 AM","Clipper","About the once a year contributions?"
"5/24/98 11:39:04 AM","Nancy","Clipper, I will find out about this application and apply, yes, but if you want to forge ahead and find out how to go about this, more power to you!"
"5/24/98 11:39:21 AM","Clipper","I can do that here."
"5/24/98 11:39:36 AM","Nancy","Jan's proprosal is on page 2 of the Whiteboard, as stated on the mailing list."
"5/24/98 11:40:02 AM","Jan","Looks like page 3 to me - there is a blank page 2 you can delete"
"5/24/98 11:40:03 AM","Gerard","in some way i like the proposal.. but it shouldn't be a demand,, if someone isn't able to send or a contribution ?"
"5/24/98 11:40:28 AM","Nancy","I believe he is making two proposal or motions 1. to create a proposal for collecting Admin & Ops funds, 2. to amend our Bylaws to collect fees from members."
"5/24/98 11:40:51 AM","Clipper","Yes"
"5/24/98 11:41:11 AM","Clipper","Two seperate things here"
"5/24/98 11:41:25 AM","Jan","Technically, it may have to be split in two proposals"
"5/24/98 11:41:29 AM","Nancy","Jan, yes, there is a blank page 2, so your proposal is on page 3!"
"5/24/98 11:41:47 AM","Jan","The point is, let's share the cost of running this organization"
"5/24/98 11:42:24 AM","Nancy","Unless we get a quorum, we cannot vote on ANY issues. However, I'd like to have a discussion here on Jan's motion to collect fees from members."
"5/24/98 11:42:24 AM","Gerard","I understand "
"5/24/98 11:42:44 AM","Gerard","No one else yet in IRC"
"5/24/98 11:42:54 AM","Clipper","Okay, I don't agree with it."
"5/24/98 11:43:06 AM","Jan","Clipper, why?"
"5/24/98 11:43:48 AM","Clipper","To me, it gives an indication that we are a non profit but yet we are asking for membership fees."
"5/24/98 11:44:22 AM","Clipper","I am not saying what you have in mind is a bad idea, it just has to be worded correctly"
"5/24/98 11:44:26 AM","Nancy","Many nonprofits DO function by member fees, or collect them at least to cover routine costs."
"5/24/98 11:44:47 AM","Jan","I believe non-profit and membership fees are two different things. I see no problem with a non-profit asking a membership fee"
"5/24/98 11:44:59 AM","Nancy","I think this is normal, in fact, but I like Clipper don't want to see us get into that, at least not yet or unless absolutely necessary."
"5/24/98 11:45:10 AM","Jan","Wording is something else :-)"
"5/24/98 11:45:37 AM","Clipper","We will lose allot of members up front if we ask"
"5/24/98 11:45:53 AM","Nancy","One of the things we are trying to do is get members REGARDLESS of their financial status, their ability to pay."
"5/24/98 11:46:04 AM","Clipper","Through guilt if nothing else"
"5/24/98 11:46:09 AM","Gerard","Yes.... "
"5/24/98 11:46:42 AM","Clipper","They may think "" If I can't help, I may as well just go away"""
"5/24/98 11:46:49 AM","Nancy","Many nonprofits are dedicated to a group, a select group that shares an interest. For instance, my sister is on the board of a train museum, and they all collect fees and come work on the trains, its FUN for them!"
"5/24/98 11:47:14 AM","Gerard","brb.. checking downstairs if there is coffee "
"5/24/98 11:47:48 AM","Clipper","I think actually, that maybe this idea should be put in front of the voting membership of TT"
"5/24/98 11:48:14 AM","Gerard","back"
"5/24/98 11:48:20 AM","Nancy","Clipper, you're right! Any ruling of ours affecting the membership, their rights, must be placed as a vote before them."
"5/24/98 11:48:24 AM","Clipper","Majority wins and we take it as it comes."
"5/24/98 11:48:34 AM","Gerard","agree"
"5/24/98 11:48:48 AM","Jan","Will people leave the list or feel guilty if they do not donate anything? The mailing would of course have to be worded so that those not contributing would not get the wrong idea, Btw, have to look after my kids - right back"
"5/24/98 11:49:12 AM","Nancy","When we discussed this last summer, in forming the nonprofit in the first place, this was discussed. Can't remember the outcome, but the Bylaws reflect the outcome and we do NOT collect fees."
"5/24/98 11:49:38 AM","Clipper","Yes Jan, they would leave the list through guilt. They are already depressed about what is happening."
"5/24/98 11:50:26 AM","Clipper","They may think, ""here it comes, they just want money"""
"5/24/98 11:51:04 AM","Gerard","Yes,,, agree Clipper and we aren't into the money thing "
"5/24/98 11:51:08 AM","Nancy","My main reason for NOT asking for fees is that I feel we will get contributions from those who can afford this, without pain. We state that we are working to find solutions for the little guy, based on volunteer effort with contributions coveriing costs. If we start hitting up the little guys FOR NO REASON (as we're not tight right now), this looks bad."
"5/24/98 11:51:39 AM","Clipper","Agreed"
"5/24/98 11:51:49 AM","Gerard","agreed"
"5/24/98 11:52:01 AM","Gerard","No one else in IRC yet"
"5/24/98 11:52:21 AM","Nancy","There is nothing to STOP a member from contributing. We already have $100 gift from someone who just felt like supporting us. There is no rule that members can't do likewise."
"5/24/98 11:52:49 AM","Jan","I only think it is wrong that Nancy should cover it all as she has done so far. If not asking all members, then what about the Ins - us?"
"5/24/98 11:52:50 AM","Clipper","Maybe that is all we should state and keep it simple?"
"5/24/98 11:53:03 AM","Gerard","members should be free to do it if they want "
"5/24/98 11:53:05 AM","Jan","Ins = Inc :-)"
"5/24/98 11:53:39 AM","Clipper","I agree Jan. Nancy should not be the only one. "
"5/24/98 11:54:04 AM","Gerard","that's right"
"5/24/98 11:54:05 AM","Jan","Who will come forward with contributions if not asked? How many actually surf around and find the Inc pages with the Grant Proposals?"
"5/24/98 11:54:11 AM","Nancy","Lets discuss and look at MY proposal for Admin & Ops costs. On page 4 of the Whiteboard."
"5/24/98 11:54:16 AM","Clipper","Nancy's generosity and our patience will pay off in the long run."
"5/24/98 11:55:21 AM","Clipper","If they type in ""Grant"", they will find it."
"5/24/98 11:55:28 AM","Nancy","Jan, one can periodically post a solicitation on tt-forum or tt-news, yes, but I think solicitation efforst OUTSIDE, to the money sources, as Clipper is doing, is the more proper thing to do."
"5/24/98 11:56:13 AM","Nancy","I'll be back in a minute, I'm going to read Shirley the page 4 stuff."
"5/24/98 11:56:22 AM","Gerard","ok"
"5/24/98 11:56:22 AM","Clipper","Okay"
"5/24/98 11:57:02 AM","Clipper","Geeee......... she never read to me:-) (just kidding)"
"5/24/98 11:57:34 AM","Gerard","no one in IRC yet, i tried to look at another server but no one there either"
"5/24/98 11:57:48 AM","Gerard","maybe some don't have the time"
"5/24/98 11:58:02 AM","Clipper","Someone may be an hour off on their time"
"5/24/98 11:58:45 AM","Gerard","maybe... but i don't think so. they are usualy right on time... "
"5/24/98 11:58:51 AM","Jan","Since we do not have a quorum, we cannot decide on the proposals. Still, I sense that this was not the right idea or the right time, so I hereby withdraw my proposal."
"5/24/98 11:59:16 AM","Clipper","Don't give up yet Jan"
"5/24/98 11:59:43 AM","Clipper","Maybe its just the timing."
"5/24/98 11:59:45 AM","Nancy","Note: it is a holiday weekend here in the US, Memorial Day, so folks are on the road, visiting relative, at barbeques, etc. Bad timing for our Board Meeting, so we may have to defer voting until next month."
"5/24/98 12:00:16 PM","Gerard","don't give up... i hope that we have a quorom later on.. as next week i won't be able to join... "
"5/24/98 12:00:17 PM","Clipper","That is right. I forgot about that."
"5/24/98 12:01:23 PM","Gerard","next week i am in a other country and won't be able to connect to the internet"
"5/24/98 12:01:26 PM","Nancy","Jan, please look at MY proposal, as indeed we should have a slot for folks to put their money into, if they just want to support us as an organization! What do you think of the wording?"
"5/24/98 12:01:45 PM","Gerard","right back.. checking downstairs if there is coffee"
"5/24/98 12:02:31 PM","Nancy","Article 9 Section 1 states that each proposal should address a) goal behind the request, b) scope and bounds, 3) how the funds will be spent. Does my proposal do this? What's missing? What's needed?"
"5/24/98 12:02:55 PM","Gerard","back"
"5/24/98 12:03:17 PM","Nancy","Gerard, we won't be meeting next week, we will table any voting until June 21st. None of this is an emergency."
"5/24/98 12:03:34 PM","Gerard","Okay :) "
"5/24/98 12:03:39 PM","Clipper","Basicly, ""Who, What, When, Where and Why"""
"5/24/98 12:04:23 PM","Nancy","I'm a little uncomfortable with the wording on Costs, as the Attorney, the CPA, B&O, these are unknown at present!"
"5/24/98 12:04:49 PM","Nancy","I get specific but don't KNOW the specifics, if you see what I mean."
"5/24/98 12:04:56 PM","Jan","Nancy's wording and mine are trying to solve the same thing from two different angels. My proposal to ask the membership for contributions has not been received well. Nancy's wording reflects the more passive model, if somebody wants to contribute (and finds the grant proposal on the web site), we may accept such contributions."
"5/24/98 12:06:03 PM","Jan","I think the wording of Nancy's Grant Proposal is good, and should be voted upon at our next Board Meeting. As I said, I withdraw my proposal."
"5/24/98 12:06:50 PM","Jan","Nancy, no problem with the wording on cost. Budgets can be adjusted."
"5/24/98 12:07:00 PM","Clipper","I say we put Jans idea in front of the voting membership of TT"
"5/24/98 12:07:51 PM","Nancy","Clipper's motion will also have to wait until we have a quorum. However, as a discussion note, this could be done. In other words, ask for discussion by the membership."
"5/24/98 12:08:16 PM","Clipper","Yes. We can call for a vote in tt"
"5/24/98 12:08:18 PM","Nancy","Clipper do you want to post such a discussion item?"
"5/24/98 12:08:56 PM","Nancy","You know, it's not clear when we ask the membership for votes, but I think the Board would have to rule on this, not helter-skelter, etc."
"5/24/98 12:09:02 PM","Clipper","Sure. It's important to Jan. He may have something and I think he should get the opportunity to let others in on it."
"5/24/98 12:09:16 PM","Gerard","right... :) "
"5/24/98 12:09:25 PM","Nancy","In the TT group, the volunteer group, we vote anytime someone asks for a vote, but in her it's corporate rules, right?"
"5/24/98 12:09:37 PM","Clipper","Yes"
"5/24/98 12:10:22 PM","Nancy","Voting is for elections, but other than that, no voting in the Inc unless the Board approves the votecall, I would think. "
"5/24/98 12:10:24 PM","Jan","Clipper, it is not that important to me. If we believe it is right to aske the membership, let's do it. If we believe this to be a bad idea, let's forget it."
"5/24/98 12:10:52 PM","Nancy","Jan, perhaps this is an idea whose time has not yet come!"
"5/24/98 12:11:11 PM","Clipper","I wasn't asking for a vote in the Inc."
"5/24/98 12:11:47 PM","Nancy","For instance, say a year from now and 500 members strong. We want to fund the pole shift video and do not yet have the $$. The Board rules that membership fees might be collected, or a special collection sough, and the membership approves this Bylaw change, the Board confirms, etc."
"5/24/98 12:11:58 PM","Clipper","I do feel the timing is not right to ask the membership for contributions."
"5/24/98 12:12:43 PM","Nancy","This issue is sure to come up again, and when it does, all manner of things might be different!"
"5/24/98 12:12:47 PM","Gerard","time is going fast.... 5 years to go "
"5/24/98 12:13:19 PM","Nancy","For now, we can address the Admin & Ops proposal that I put up, with any changes that come to mind over the next month."
"5/24/98 12:13:46 PM","Nancy","Thanks to Jan for starting this, and getting me off the hook forever on these Admin & Ops expenses!"
"5/24/98 12:14:01 PM","Clipper","I agree:-)"
"5/24/98 12:14:12 PM","Nancy","I do feel that we will get this funded, and per the motion last month, I will be reimbursed for what I have laid out."
"5/24/98 12:14:27 PM","Nancy","Thanks again to Jan for looking after my interests."
"5/24/98 12:14:47 PM","Jan","When I checked the list today, we had < 100 subscribers in the Forum. I think members is about 50. Maybe it's too early - let's get back to it in 5-6 years time... :-)"
"5/24/98 12:14:56 PM","Nancy","Since we can't vote on anything, we may as well adjourn. I just want to say a bit about Place of Business."
"5/24/98 12:15:20 PM","Clipper","Okay"
"5/24/98 12:15:25 PM","Gerard","okay"
"5/24/98 12:15:51 PM","Nancy","This past weekend I visited my families homestead in Wisconsin again, and it looks like the sale will go to me, $$ situation granting this."
"5/24/98 12:15:58 PM","Clipper","Good one Jan:-)"
"5/24/98 12:16:11 PM","Jan","Nancy, it is more in the interest of the group than it is in your interest. Any group heviliy reliant on any one person is vunerable. We maybe more than others, unless the Zetas get up their speed on those implants to the rest of the Inc..."
"5/24/98 12:16:28 PM","Nancy","This is a big house, with the front ""parlor"" and bedroom having a separate entrance off Lieder street."
"5/24/98 12:16:42 PM","Gerard","it's not only the inc who has implants :))) i think "
"5/24/98 12:16:52 PM","Clipper","Leider Street?"
"5/24/98 12:17:03 PM","Nancy","That the street is named my last name is no coincidence, as my grandfather built the houses on this street, including the homestead."
"5/24/98 12:17:16 PM","Nancy","He was a master carpenter."
"5/24/98 12:17:25 PM","Clipper","That is cool!"
"5/24/98 12:17:52 PM","Gerard","that's cool yes"
"5/24/98 12:18:05 PM","Nancy","There is room for gardens, seed distribution from the basement which has an exterior entrance, a bermed hydro barn with a metal roof, and wetlands use, such as a floating barge/houseboat example."
"5/24/98 12:18:09 PM","Jan","Well I sure don't have one. Maybe we should vote on having a backup for Nancy, so that the Vice President may get an implant)"
"5/24/98 12:18:42 PM","Gerard","strange thought.. Jan :)))) "
"5/24/98 12:19:05 PM","Clipper","Never underestimate your Vice-President:-)"
"5/24/98 12:19:26 PM","Gerard","lol :) "
"5/24/98 12:19:40 PM","Nancy","So .. if all this works out, then we will have a physical place of business, as the IRS wanted, and can have the files on site instead of a lockbox, and can hire a clerical person if the workload requires, etc."
"5/24/98 12:19:58 PM","Gerard","right"
"5/24/98 12:20:15 PM","Clipper","And we can come visit:-)"
"5/24/98 12:20:25 PM","Nancy","Just wanted to mention that changes are in the works, opportunities to meet the IRS objections to a stricktly internet based nonprofit, etc."
"5/24/98 12:20:50 PM","Clipper","Explain"
"5/24/98 12:21:09 PM","Jan","Back to TT Place of Business: I think Nancy's Wisconsin house sounds like a great place for the Inc."
"5/24/98 12:21:20 PM","Gerard","sounds good to me too "
"5/24/98 12:21:30 PM","Nancy","YES! Tours are a big part of this, with not only CNN coming through with a camera rolling, but the general public. The front :parlor woudl be perfect for models of various living arrangments, and there I would put my grandmothers treddle sewing machine, etc."
"5/24/98 12:22:10 PM","Jan","My wife is away visiting her 81-year old mother. I need a few minutes to look after figting kids. Right back..."
"5/24/98 12:22:22 PM","Clipper","I have dibs on the floating barge thingy while I am there."
"5/24/98 12:22:32 PM","Nancy","Brochures available to be picked up, etc. And you know, if we get the right cook and recipes, we could serve wormburgers for lunch!"
"5/24/98 12:23:02 PM","Nancy","Practice what we preach!"
"5/24/98 12:23:19 PM","Clipper","I tease my kids that we are going to be eating worm powder stuff. Preparing their minds for when they realy have to."
"5/24/98 12:23:38 PM","Nancy","As wetlands are protected, the floating barge would not have sewage, etc., but only be an EXAMPLE to give folks ideas."
"5/24/98 12:24:11 PM","Clipper","I know Nancy, just a little humor there. You do have trees I take it?:-)))"
"5/24/98 12:24:33 PM","Nancy","My thought is that as the poles melt, many may find a floating home allows them to adjust quickly, follow the shore, etc., and is a good plan in general for a survival home not on high ground."
"5/24/98 12:25:14 PM","Clipper","That is a very good plan. I have considered the idea myself."
"5/24/98 12:25:26 PM","Nancy","Clipper, trees aplenty, 13.5 acreas mostly wooded, but most on soggy ground and what is not wooded is a marsh. "
"5/24/98 12:25:44 PM","Nancy","There are SPRINGS there, more than one, which is why the pond is standing water and does not drain completely."
"5/24/98 12:26:04 PM","Clipper","Artesian wells?"
"5/24/98 12:26:25 PM","Jan","Nancy, what altitude is the property at?"
"5/24/98 12:26:25 PM","Nancy","I have a catalog from Wildlife Nursery of Oshkosh that sells plants for bogs and wetlands."
"5/24/98 12:26:37 PM","Nancy","Wild rice, perhaps, and fresh water shrimp, etc."
"5/24/98 12:26:48 PM","Nancy","I have just started to explore all this."
"5/24/98 12:26:56 PM","Gerard","okay"
"5/24/98 12:27:48 PM","Clipper","Do you have topographic maps of the area yet Nancy?"
"5/24/98 12:27:50 PM","Nancy","Clipper, the water flows out of the ground! Jan, 1,000 above sea level, I belive."
"5/24/98 12:28:23 PM","Nancy","Clipper, I'm getting the maps, not topo but tax maps which I've seem but don't yet have in hand. "
"5/24/98 12:28:41 PM","Jan","Btw, I have just ordered the ""I am America"" map and their World Atlas for Europe. Will be interesting to check vs. the Zetas. Have any of you checked their US maps?"
"5/24/98 12:28:49 PM","Clipper","Yes, that is called an Artesian well. Some build rooms and concrete casings to store the water that comes from them. We had on in Pa. when I grew up."
"5/24/98 12:28:57 PM","Nancy","Well, I'm ready for a motion to end this Board Meeting, but as chair I cannot myself make this motion."
"5/24/98 12:29:26 PM","Jan","At 1,000 feet you should be safe."
"5/24/98 12:29:27 PM","Clipper","I make a motion that we end this meeting."
"5/24/98 12:29:37 PM","Gerard","i second"
"5/24/98 12:30:01 PM","Nancy","A motion has been made and seconded that the meeting be ajourned. All in favor say Yes, opposed say No."
"5/24/98 12:30:08 PM","Clipper","Yes"
"5/24/98 12:30:09 PM","Jan","Yes"
"5/24/98 12:30:10 PM","Gerard","Yes"
"5/24/98 12:30:11 PM","Nancy","yes"
"5/24/98 12:30:24 PM","Nancy","Shirley says ""Yes"""